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kovotojai rieš išskirtinumą > "Nurchaci"
"Juk kalbama ne apie tai, kad "viena LR piliečių dalis - lietuviai" apmokėtų patirtus nuostolius "kitai LR piliečių daliai - žydams",..."
- deja, bet kalbame būtent apie tai.
".. o apie kompensaciją už išlikusį nekilnojamą turtą, iki karo priklausiusį žydų bendruomenei, kuriuo disponavo (ir disponuoja) mūsų valstybė."
- jūsų žiniai, Konstitucijoje suverenu įvardinta Lietuvos tauta susideda ne iš lietuvių, žydų, rusų, lenkų, gėjų ir pan. "bendruomenių", o iš lygiateisių piliečių, kurie gali jungtis į įvairias organizacijas.
Atitinkamai, iki karo šis turtas priklausė ne "bendruomenei", bet iš žydų kilmės Lietuvos piliečių sudarytoms visuomeninėms organizacijoms, kurių teisėtas paveldėtojas ir yra mūsų visų, tame tarpe - žydų, valstybė, kaip Lietuvos pilietinės tautos atstovė.
O gal jūs norite pasakyti, kad Lietuvos žydai nėra Lietuvos pilietinės tautos, bet Izraelio ar kokios Pasaulinės žydijos dalis?
- deja, bet kalbame būtent apie tai.
".. o apie kompensaciją už išlikusį nekilnojamą turtą, iki karo priklausiusį žydų bendruomenei, kuriuo disponavo (ir disponuoja) mūsų valstybė."
- jūsų žiniai, Konstitucijoje suverenu įvardinta Lietuvos tauta susideda ne iš lietuvių, žydų, rusų, lenkų, gėjų ir pan. "bendruomenių", o iš lygiateisių piliečių, kurie gali jungtis į įvairias organizacijas.
Atitinkamai, iki karo šis turtas priklausė ne "bendruomenei", bet iš žydų kilmės Lietuvos piliečių sudarytoms visuomeninėms organizacijoms, kurių teisėtas paveldėtojas ir yra mūsų visų, tame tarpe - žydų, valstybė, kaip Lietuvos pilietinės tautos atstovė.
O gal jūs norite pasakyti, kad Lietuvos žydai nėra Lietuvos pilietinės tautos, bet Izraelio ar kokios Pasaulinės žydijos dalis?
Nurchaci "kovotojams prieš vienos tautos
Kodėl apsimetate lochais? Juk kalbama ne apie tai, kad "viena LR piliečių dalis - lietuviai" apmokėtų patirtus nuostolius "kitai LR piliečių daliai - žydams", o apie kompensaciją už išlikusį nekilnojamą turtą, iki karo priklausiusį žydų bendruomenei, kuriuo disponavo (ir disponuoja) mūsų valstybė.
Svetimos okupacinės valdžios (rusų komunistų ir vokiečių nacių) nusavintas nekilnojamas turtas turi būti arba gražintas, arba kompensuotas.
Svetimos okupacinės valdžios (rusų komunistų ir vokiečių nacių) nusavintas nekilnojamas turtas turi būti arba gražintas, arba kompensuotas.
Ar tik Tamsta nebūsite ponas Arkadijus Vinokuras?
Ačiū už šį atrastą "perlą".
Jėzau, kokių tik kvailysčių apie mūsų tautas nepriskleidė visokie "šveicarų" komentatoriai...
Jėzau, kokių tik kvailysčių apie mūsų tautas nepriskleidė visokie "šveicarų" komentatoriai...
Geriausias ginčų sprendimo būdas - teismas.Kodėl Lietuvos Respublika vos pati nusikračiusi kaimynų jungą dabar remiama prie sienos?Į tą patį vandenį įbristi neįmanoma.Jei yra konkretūs nusikaltėliai, konkretūs nuskriaustieji, tegul teismas aiškinasi kompensacijos dydžius.Nei mano seneliai, nei tėvai nedalyvavo žydų naikinime.Kodėl turiu apmokėti aš, mano vaikai ar vaikaičiai?Jei visas genocidas būtų prasidėjęs ne nuo fašistinės Vokietijos ideologų, jei visa lietuvių tauta būtų susitepusi žydų krauju, tada galima būtų taip akiplėšiškai reikšti tokio dydžio pretenzijas, o dabar tai panašu į kažkokią nesąmonę
Iš Economist comentarų:
cynik wrote:
September 3, 2009 18:20
It is well noted by RealTexan, below, that history is revised by the baltic states in a far more alarming manner than by the Russians. I'm married to a balt, and I go there every year. Anyone who has not been to the baltic states just does not understand how extreme those governments are in the human rights and historical revision game.
You want historical revisionism? Go to Latvia, and check out the monuments that have been erected of soldiers wearing SS uniforms. Go to the EU meetings of new eastern european states, and listen in on what the government representatives of these states say about the second world war. Of course, you'll need to speak another language than English. But I'm sure the economist can provide a translator. My advice is to take a jewish translator, so that you get the full and un-abridged version of the hysterical anti-semitism. Now you might find it hard to find a jew who can speak a baltic language, for fairly well known historical reasons.
It is not that balts routinely say negative things about jews. It is that they blame jews for the all problems in the world, and regularly refer to them as filthy, disgusting sub humans. I'm not talking about 1945, I am referring to last week. And I am not talking about a few people. I am talking about everyone I spoke to, every time I go there. Not only that, but such is the ignorance of the mainstream culture in the baltic states, balts generally suppose Americans share these anti-semitic views.
Whensoever I go to the baltic states, people always ask me why Americans support Israel, and can't they see what a problem jewish people are in the world?
When I tell them that the only thing Americans know about the baltic states is that they butchered more of their own people in death camps than any other nations, I just get a blank look. One Lithuanian guy even said to me "But they weren't lithuanians, they were jews."
My response was "Go to New York, and ask someone how many of the residents are Jews, and how many are Americans."
That point was completely missed. The response was "Well, how many?"
I explained that American jews are not considered un-American. In fact, jews are considered wholey American, just like anyone else. I pointed out that referring to jews and Lithuanians as separate peoples, when both lived in Lithuania, was hard core fascism.
At that point, i was angrily attacked as a Russian sympathizer, someone who probably thought Latvian russians should be given passports, and be allowed to vote, travel and hold government jobs. I was (I'm not joking) accused of wanting to commit genocide on the Latvian people.
I was called a "Stalinist".
For the record, I am a tax lawyer living in Switzerland. Not exactly a Stalinist.
If you think I exaggerate the situation, go there. Do some real journalism, and research your story properly. Get into conversations with locals. Learn something about our new and wonderful NATO allies, in the Baltic states.
THEN write your piece about Russian historical revisionism.
Maybe Russia has some history that is ugly, but Stalin and Beria were Georgian, and the head of the Red Army was Latvian during the communist revolution. The majority of the NKVD in Poland were Lithuanian, because they spoke the language. But Russia gets the blame for all the folks, because of journalism like this.
I know this sounds like I have a problem with the baltic people. I swear i don't. I'm not jewish, and I married a lithuanian catholic. But the balts scare the heck out of me, and when I read journalism criticizing Russia for historical revisionism, all i can think is that a lot of folks write about things they just don't know anything about.
cynik wrote:
September 3, 2009 18:20
It is well noted by RealTexan, below, that history is revised by the baltic states in a far more alarming manner than by the Russians. I'm married to a balt, and I go there every year. Anyone who has not been to the baltic states just does not understand how extreme those governments are in the human rights and historical revision game.
You want historical revisionism? Go to Latvia, and check out the monuments that have been erected of soldiers wearing SS uniforms. Go to the EU meetings of new eastern european states, and listen in on what the government representatives of these states say about the second world war. Of course, you'll need to speak another language than English. But I'm sure the economist can provide a translator. My advice is to take a jewish translator, so that you get the full and un-abridged version of the hysterical anti-semitism. Now you might find it hard to find a jew who can speak a baltic language, for fairly well known historical reasons.
It is not that balts routinely say negative things about jews. It is that they blame jews for the all problems in the world, and regularly refer to them as filthy, disgusting sub humans. I'm not talking about 1945, I am referring to last week. And I am not talking about a few people. I am talking about everyone I spoke to, every time I go there. Not only that, but such is the ignorance of the mainstream culture in the baltic states, balts generally suppose Americans share these anti-semitic views.
Whensoever I go to the baltic states, people always ask me why Americans support Israel, and can't they see what a problem jewish people are in the world?
When I tell them that the only thing Americans know about the baltic states is that they butchered more of their own people in death camps than any other nations, I just get a blank look. One Lithuanian guy even said to me "But they weren't lithuanians, they were jews."
My response was "Go to New York, and ask someone how many of the residents are Jews, and how many are Americans."
That point was completely missed. The response was "Well, how many?"
I explained that American jews are not considered un-American. In fact, jews are considered wholey American, just like anyone else. I pointed out that referring to jews and Lithuanians as separate peoples, when both lived in Lithuania, was hard core fascism.
At that point, i was angrily attacked as a Russian sympathizer, someone who probably thought Latvian russians should be given passports, and be allowed to vote, travel and hold government jobs. I was (I'm not joking) accused of wanting to commit genocide on the Latvian people.
I was called a "Stalinist".
For the record, I am a tax lawyer living in Switzerland. Not exactly a Stalinist.
If you think I exaggerate the situation, go there. Do some real journalism, and research your story properly. Get into conversations with locals. Learn something about our new and wonderful NATO allies, in the Baltic states.
THEN write your piece about Russian historical revisionism.
Maybe Russia has some history that is ugly, but Stalin and Beria were Georgian, and the head of the Red Army was Latvian during the communist revolution. The majority of the NKVD in Poland were Lithuanian, because they spoke the language. But Russia gets the blame for all the folks, because of journalism like this.
I know this sounds like I have a problem with the baltic people. I swear i don't. I'm not jewish, and I married a lithuanian catholic. But the balts scare the heck out of me, and when I read journalism criticizing Russia for historical revisionism, all i can think is that a lot of folks write about things they just don't know anything about.
Kaip galima kurti atskirą įstatymą konkrečiai vienai tautybei?!
Ar nebus tai pažeidimas Konstitucijos, kurioje pasakyta kad visi lygūs prieš įstatymą nepriklausomai nuo tautybės?
Ar nebus tai pažeidimas Konstitucijos, kurioje pasakyta kad visi lygūs prieš įstatymą nepriklausomai nuo tautybės?
Nepamirškime, kad žydomasonams svetingumas Lietuvoje buvo atšauktas dar 1941m.
? Ягненок всегда волку виноват (Nekrasovas).
Niekaip sveiku protu nepajėgiu suvokti, kodėl viena nuo okupacijos nukentėjusi tautos dalis (lietuviai) turi sumokėti kitai nuo tos pačios okupacijos nekentėjusiai piliečių (žydų) daliai kompensaciją? Kas paaiškins? Juk Lietuva buvo taiki ir neutrali valstybė. ne ji kūrė bolševizmą ir fašizmą. Kodėl žalą atlygina nekalti, o kalti dėl to net neįvardijami (turiu galvije bolševikus, nes fašizmas pasmerktas jau 1949). Kodėl holokaustas įvardijamas kaip išskirtinis genocidas, nors pasaulis matė ir kitų-net didesnių-genocidų?
Tautybė, kaip loterijos bilietas. Sveikiname laimėjusius Aukso puodą!